From: johnson@ferret.cig.mot.com (Brad Johnson) Subject: Re: EMAIL DUNE? Here's my list of Dune house rules and rules interpretations that were necessary to think once or twice about during my recent PBeM game. My apologies that I haven't yet organized them by category; they're listed pretty much as they came up. The rulings that we used are marked with asterisks -- Some were decided by vote, some ruled by me. You may not agree with all of the rulings (I'm not sure I do), but you will probably agree that there are lots of questions (usually to special cases) left unanswered by the rulebook as written. Some of the implicit rules interpretations are so ingrained in how most people play, they may seem to be actual rules to you, but I think a careful and literal reading of the rules will show that these are all undefined (or imprecisely defined) cases. It was originally my plan to send these questions to Avalon Hill for responses, but I don't really have any confidence that they would be willing to do this for an out-of-print game. (My guess is they might throw them to a staffer to answer, but I doubt that would get us the "correct" answers.) If anyone knows how to contact the original developers, I'd love to know. Again, if you have any thoughts, let me know. Brad Johnson (johnson@cig.mot.com) 1) What is the latest time a Karama can be played to cancel the Bene Gesserit Voice in battle? a) Before the Voice command is known. *b) After the Voice command is known. 2) What is the latest time a Karama can be played to cancel the Atreides Prescience in battle? a) Before the Prescience question is asked. *b) After the Prescience question is asked. 3) When must elements of a player's battle plan that are not Voiced or Prescienced be finally committed? *a) Only immediately before the battle plan is revealed. b) Before the Bene Gesserit Voice (if applicable). c) After the Bene Gessiert Voice, but before the Atreides Prescience (if applicable). 4) What is the latest time a Karama can be played to cancel the capture of a leader by the Harkonnen? a) Before the captured leader is revealed. *b) After the captured leader is revealed. 5) Who is entitled to see the identity of a leader captured by the Harkonnen? *a) Only the Harkonnen and the victim. b) All players. 6) Regarding the shipment of Fremen tokens, which may be placed within two spaces of the Great Flat: Exactly which spaces does this include? a) Only the spaces within 2 of the Great Flat that also border the equator (i.e. edge of the board). *b) Any space on the board within 2 of the Great Flat. 7) During the Shipment and Movement Round, what is the order of events? a) All players take revival, then all players ship, then all players move. b) The first player takes revival, then ships, then moves, followed by each player in sequence. *c) All players take revival, then the first player ships and moves, followed by each player in sequence. 8) When must the Bene Gesserit declare non-coexistence of its tokens on the board? *a) At the beginning of the Shipment and Movement Round, before revival is taken. b) At the beginning of the Shipment and Movement Round, after revival is taken. c) Preceding/during the Bene Gesserit's turn to move. d) At the end of the Shipment and Movement Round. 9) Can the Bene Gesserit declare non-coexistence for tokens in a space currently occupied by both Bene Gesserit and an ally of the Bene Gesserit? a) Yes. b) Yes, but only during the turn in which the alliance was made. c) Only if in different sectors. *d) Only if in different sectors separated by the storm. e) No. 10) If answering a) or b) to question 9), does the presence of non-coexisting Bene Gesserit tokens plus an ally's tokens in a stronghold prohibit other factions from entering that stronghold? a) Yes. (This would seem much too powerful.) *b) No. 11) If answering a) or b) to question 9), what if neither the Bene Gesserit nor the ally vacates the space? a) The Bene Gesserit must change the tokens to coexisting at the end of the Shipment and Movement round. *b) One of the allies *must* vacate the space, unless there is truly *no way* this can be done. (For example, if the Bene Gesserit coexists with the same ally in 3 or more spaces and neither of them holds a Hajr card. There are other possible cases.) 12) If answering b) to question 11), what happens if there is truly *no way* all of the spaces occupied by both the Bene Gesserit and an ally can be reduced to being occupied by one faction only? a) The Bene Gesserit and the ally must battle (contravening rule XII.E.5). *b) The Bene Gesserit must change the tokens to coexisting at the end of the Shipment and Movement round. c) Either the Bene Gesserit or the ally must remove their conflicting tokens from the board. d) *Both* the Bene Gesserit and the ally must remove their conflicing tokens from the board. 13) If answered c) or d) to question 12), where are the removed tokens placed? *a) In the tanks. b) Back behind the owner's shield, off-planet. 13) After a player passes during the bid for treachery card, may that player later bid again on the same card? *a) Yes. b) No. 14) What is the latest time a Karama can be played by the Atreides to force an opponent to reveal an entire battle plan? a) Before the Bene Gesserit Voice (if applicable). *b) After the Bene Gessiert Voice (if applicable). 15) On whom can a Karama be played by the Atreides to force the entire battle plan to be revealed? *a) Any player in any battle. b) Only an opponent in a battle in which the Atreides is actually participating. c) Only an opponent in a battle in which the Atreides or an ally of the Atreides is actually participating. 16) Can a group of non-coexisting Bene Gesserit tokens change to coexisting when ending their move in a new space? a) Yes. *b) Yes, but the Bene Gesserit need not make such a declaration unless or until another faction's tokens are present in that space. c) No, not until the next Shipment and Movement Round. 17) Can a group of coexisting Bene Gesserit tokens change to non-coexisting when ending their move in a new space? a) Yes. b) Yes, but the Bene Gesserit need not make such a declaration unless or until another faction's tokens are present in that space. c) Yes, but only if no tokens have ever coexisted in that space during the current turn. *d) Yes, but only if no tokens have ever coexisted in that space during the current turn, and the Bene Gesserit need not make such a declaration unless or until another faction's tokens are present in that space. e) No, not until the next Shipment and Movement Round. 18) When must the Bene Gesserit declare whether new tokens shipped down to the planet are coexisting or non-coexisting? a) Immediately upon shipping the tokens. b) At the end of the current Shipment and Movement Round. *c) Not until another faction enters the same space as those tokens, or the beginning of the next Shipment and Movement Round, whichever comes first. 19) Where may Bene Gesserit spiritual advisors be shipped, if using optional rule XV? a) To the territory into which another player ships. b) To the Polar Sink. *c) Either a) or b), as the Bene Gesserit desires. 20) May the Bene Gesserit opt to *not* ship a spiritual advisor, if using optional rule XV? *a) Yes. b) No. 21) What is the latest time that a Karama can be played by the Guild to cancel another faction's shipment? a) Before the shipment is declared. *b) After the shipment is declared, but before that faction's movement is declared. c) After that faction's shipment and movement is declared. 22) When can a Karama be played by the Fremen to cause a worm to appear? a) Any time. b) Any time during the Spice Round. c) Only at the beginning the the Spice Round. d) Only at the end of the Spice Round. *e) Only just before drawing a spice blow card during the Spice Round. f) Only just after drawing a spice blow card during the Spice Round. 23) What is the latest time that the Bene Gesserit's prediction can be made? *a) Immediately after factions are assigned. b) After traitors are drawn. c) After tokens are placed on the board. d) After initial treachery cards are dealt. 24) What is the latest time that a Karama can be played to cancel the Emperor's or Fremen's starred token advantage? a) Before battle plans are revealed. *b) After battle plans are revealed. 25) If answering b) to question 24), what happens to the number dialed by the Fremen or Emperor if it now exceeds the maximum valid number? a) Nothing. The number dialed may still be used as the battle value, but each starred tokens sent to the tanks now counts the same as only one regular token. *b) The number dialed must be adjusted downward to the maximum valid number. (If using advanced combat rule XXII, the spice originally paid to supply tokens may *not* be changed in any way.) 26) Is the Atreides entitled to see the identity of the 2nd free card drawn by the Harkonnen when purchasing a treachery card? a) Yes. *b) No. (Note that in this case it seems unlikely that anyone would ever bother playing a Karama to cancel taking a card of which no one knows the identity.) 27) If a player intends to play a Karama to avoid paying for a treachery card, does that allow him to bid higher than the amount of spice he current holds? *a) Yes. (Note that this implies that a bid of "infinity" must be allowed in order to ensure that bidding will end.) b) No. 28) If answering a) to question 27), in the case that two or more players are intending to play a Karama to buy the same treachery card, would it be true that the first bidder to bid "infinity" during his proper turn to bid and play a Karama wins the bid? *a) Yes. b) No. 29) When the Harkonnen capture a leader, it says he may immediately send that leader to the tanks for 2 spice. What exactly does this mean? a) Harkonnen must *pay* 2 spice for the privelege of killing the leader. *b) Harkonnen *receives* 2 spice for the water from killing the leader. 30) If the Harkonnen has captured a leader that is one of the traitors in his pay, what happens if that leader is played in battle against the original owner? *a) The original owner may call traitor, as usual. b) The original owner may *not* call traitor. 31) When does the Emperor actually receive payments for treachery cards? *a) Immediately upon purchase of each card. The Emperor immediately has that money available for use. b) All payments are held "in escrow" until the end of the current Treachery Round. 32) When does the Guild actually receive payments for shipments made by other factions (excluding the Fremen)? *a) Immediately upon shipment. The Guild immediately has that money available for use. b) All payments are held "in escrow" until the end of the current Shipment and Movement Round. 33) Where does the spice paid for shipping allies of the Guild go? *a) To the Guild, even though this effectively makes the rule that the Guild's allies ship for half price moot (and effectively discounts the value of the Emperor's special alliance power). b) To the bank, because the Guild's special alliance power says, "Allies may use the same types of shipment and at the same costs as you", even though this contravenes the rule that all payments for shipment are paid to the Guild. 34) Given that the Emperor's special alliance power says, "You may give spice to your allies to purchase treachery cards, to revive tokens and to make shipments. Their payment for any treachery cards even with your own spice comes right back to you", what does this imply about the ability of other players to exchange spice? a) No other players may ever exchange spice, even though this contravenes rules XII.E.3-4 and XIII.C. b) Only allies may exchange spice, and then only according to rules XII.E.3-4, even thought this contravenes rule XIII.C, and effectively makes the Emperor's special alliance power meaningless. *c) All players may exchange spice, even though this effectively makes the Emperor's special alliance power meaningless. 35) If answering c) to question 34), may the Guild make a deal that absolves another player from paying all or some of his shipment costs? *a) Yes, but the player still can't land more tokens than he would be to afford to given the spice he currently holds (plus spice he can get as gifts or loans from other players). b) Yes, and the player may therefore land any number of tokens, as long as the Guild only requires him to pay less than or equal to the spice he has available. c) No. 36) If answering c) to question 34), may the Emperor make a deal that absolves another player from paying all or some of his treachery card purchase costs? *a) Yes, but the player still can't ever bid more spice than he currently holds (plus spice he can get as gifts or loans from other players). b) Yes, and the player may therefore bid any number of spice, as long as the Emperor only requires him to pay less than or equal to the spice he has available. c) No. 37) If answering c) to question 34), what sorts of deals may be made by players for the purpose of exchanging spice? *a) Any kind of deal is allowed, even including the gift of spice from one player to another. b) Any kind of deal is allowed, but outright gifts are excluded, even though this would be exceedingly difficult to rule on objectively. c) Only deals that involve providing all or some of the cost of another faction's shipment and/or treachery card purchases (as described in rules XII.E.3-4). 38) If answering b) to question 37), who adjudicates whether or not a deal can be construed as a gift? (For example, if I say "I will pay you 20 spice if you agree to not attack me in the Polar Sink this turn [where no combat can legally occur anyway]", is that a deal or a gift?) *a) Majority vote of the factions not participating in the deal. b) Any faction may veto a deal if it seems too much like a gift. [Of course, this choice would be absurd, but it's here for completeness.] c) Any deal that even looks like a deal, such as the example above, is legal. [If this choice is true, then a) should have been chosen for question 37)]. 39) Is it true that Weather Control must be played *before* the distance the storm is supposed to move is revealed? a) Yes. *b) No. 40) May a Karama be played to prevent an *ally* of the Fremen from controlling a worm once, thus sending their tokens to the tanks? *a) Yes. b) No. 41) When the Harkonnen plays a Karama to steal treachery cards from another player, it is clear that he may *not* look at the cards taken in order to choose which ones to take. However, once the Harkonnen has taken all of the cards that he is going to take, may he look at them before deciding which of his own cards to given back in return? *a) Yes. b) No. 42) When does the Atreides get to use the Kwisatz Haderach? a) In *all* turns after the first turn in which he loses 7 or more tokens during that turn. b) In *all* turns after *and including* the first turn in which he loses 7 or more tokens during that turn. *c) In *all* turns after the first turn in which he has lost a total of 7 or more tokens during the entire game. d) In *all* turns after *and including* the first turn in which he has lost a total of 7 or more tokens during the entire game. e) Only during *each* turn in which he loses 7 or more tokens during that turn. 43) Many of the Karama powers listed on the Player Aid sheet explicitly include the word "once" in the description. (For example, "Prevents Atreides from seeing the future, once".) What exactly does this mean? *a) Once per Karama card. b) Once per game. 44) A Karama may be played to "prevent Atreides from seeing the future". Exactly which instances of Atreides prescience may be preventing using this power? (Indicate all that apply.) *a) Prescience during battle. *b) Seeing the spice blow card for the next turn. *c) Seeing the next treachery card up for bid. 45) Where can the Fremen send additional worms beyond the first drawn for a given spice blow? *a) To any territory on the board. b) To any other *sand* territory on the board. 46) According to the rules, the Fremen can ship off-planet tokens into the storm, taking half losses as normal. Since the Fremen shipment is essentially just a move from off-board, does this imply that the Fremen can also *move* tokens already on the board into or through the storm, taking half losses as normal? *a) Yes. b) No. 47) Which players, if any, are allowed to keep written notes of who holds which treachery cards during the game? a) None. *b) Only the Atreides. c) All players. 48) May any player keep written notes of players' spice treasuries during the game? a) Yes. *b) No. 49) According to the rules, the Guild may play a Karama to stop the shipment of any player. Does this include the ability to stop a shipment made by the Fremen, even though the Fremen's "shipments" are by "walking" from the southern hemisphere of the planet, and not really via Guild ships from off-planet? a) Yes. *b) No. 50) According to the rules, the Bene Gesserit may send a spiritual advisor to accompany the shipment of any player. Does this include shipments made by the Fremen, even though the Fremen's "shipments" are by "walking" from the southern hemisphere of the planet, and not really via Guild ships from off-planet? a) Yes. *b) No. 51) Who may play a Karama to cancel the Atreides Prescience in battle? a) Only the Atreides' opponent in that battle. b) Only the Atreides' opponent in that battle and allies of that opponent. *c) Anyone. 52) Who may play a Karama to cancel the Bene Gesserit Voice in battle? a) Only the Bene Gesserit's opponent in that battle. b) Only the Bene Gesserit's opponent in that battle and allies of that opponent. *c) Anyone. 53) In what order are the Guild's battles resolved? a) Strictly according to the position of the storm relative to the Guild's player dot. (For example, if the Guild *should* have moved first, the Guild's battles will be resolved first, regardless of when the Guild actually took its move.) *b) According to when the Guild actually took its move. (For example, if the Guild chose to move last, its battles will be resolved last, regardless of the Guild's player dot position.) 54) If the position of the storm relative to the Guild's player dot indicates that the Guild *should* move first, but the Guild elects to defer its movement until last, does the Guild win ties in battle that turn? a) Yes. *b) No. 55) Is the capture of a leader by the Harkonnen optional? *a) Yes. b) No. 56) Is the one Bene Gesserit token placed at the beginning of the game required to begin in coexistence? a) Yes. *b) No. 57) Is the Atreides use of Prescience optional? *a) Yes. b) No. 58) Is the Bene Gesserit use of Voice optional? *a) Yes. b) No. 59) When the Harkonnen plays a Karama to steal treachery cards from another player, it is clear that he is *not* allowed to return the exact cards stolen to the victim. However, if a Snooper or Shield is stolen, may another card of the same type (which happens to be indistinguishable from the card stolen) be returned? *a) Yes. b) No. 60) If a faction ships tokens into Carthag or Arrakeen, is that faction considered to have access to ornithopters for the purposes of movement that same turn? a) Yes, unconditionally. b) Yes, but only if no other faction already occupies that city. *c) No. 61) If the Bene Gesserit begin the Shipment and Movement Round with coexisting tokens in Carthag and/or Arrakeen, are the Bene Gesserit considered to have access to ornithopters for the purposes of movement that same turn? a) Yes, unconditionally. b) Yes, but only if no other faction also occupies that city. c) Yes, but only if the coexisting tokens in Carthag and/or Arrakeen are changed to non-coexisting at the very beginning of the Shipment and Movement Round (clarifying rule IX.C.2.1). d) Yes, but only if the coexisting tokens in Carthag and/or Arrakeen are changed to non-coexisting at the very beginning of the Shipment and Movement Round (clarifying rule IX.C.2.1) *and* no other faction also occupies that city. *e) No, a faction must begin the Shipment and Movement Round with *sole possession* of Carthag and/or Arrakeen in order to have ornithopter movement (seeming to contravene rule IX.C.2.1). 62) If the Fremen use their special worm-riding ability to move tokens into Carthag and/or Arrakeen during the Spice Round, are the Fremen considered to have access to ornithopters for the purposes of movement that same turn? a) Yes, unconditionally. b) Yes, but only if no other faction already occupies that city. *c) No. 63) May tokens be moved in the same turn that they are first shipped to the planet? (E.g. If the Harkonnen ships 2 tokens to Carthag, may they then immediately be moved as the Harkonnen's one on-planet move?) *a) Yes. b) No. 64) Is the state of coexistence or non-coexistence attached to Bene Gesserit tokens or spaces occupied by Bene Gesserit tokens? (E.g. Say there are 2 tokens in Arrakeen declared to be coexisting, which then move to Carthag where there are 3 tokens declared to be not coexisting. If coexistence is attached to tokens, then Carthag should contain 3 non-coexisting tokens and 2 coexisting tokens. If coexistence is instead attached to spaces, then Carthag should contain 5 non-coexisting tokens, and any tokens later moved into Arrakeen should become coexisting.) a) Coexistence is attached to Bene Gesserit tokens. *b) Coexistence is attached to spaces occupied by Bene Gesserit tokens. 65) When drawing traitors at the beginning of the game, which leaders are eligible to be drawn? a) All leaders of all factions, regardless of the number of players. *b) Only the leaders of the factions currently involved in the game, if less than 6 players.