Molotov's War Rules questions and comments. Played a game of MW today and found the game to be fun but with many rules questions that are really unacceptable in a game with only 5 pages of rules. As we played through my opponent and I kept wondering whether the final form of the game had been (a) proof read (b) actually played by anyone since the queries we had must have come up if the game had been play tested and should have been addressed. For the record I played the Finns and got soundly beaten by turn seven. Part of the problem with the game is that the Russian units are too difficult to isolate and virtually impossible to expel from the Mannerheim line if they stack two units (4 steps).There is only one result on the CRT that can force the Russians out if stacked like that (7 to 1 DR 1-3 with the Finnish bonus) and the Finns can't afford to counterattack on multiple turns as they are certain of incurring losses themselves which they can ill afford. Other problems include the fact that the Russian player can effectively abandon the Leningrad front and shift units by rail to the Lake Lagoda front and suffer no penalty for failing to have any units between finland and Leningrad. Even worse,the Russians can avoid many of the supply problems in the north by simply not placing any units there and attacking solely in the south. What then happens is that they grind down the Finnish army to a level where they are unable to defend the north anymore( due to lack of units) and they then take a northern VP hex fairly easily.The Finns on the other hand have to at least screen the northern fronts to avoid letting the Russians marching reinforcements on there unopposed.Thus the Finns are forced to cover all fronts (Leningrad/Lagoda/North) whilst the Russians can shift forces anywhere with no concern of covering any front..the Finns are prevented from advancing more than 3 hexes into Russia and any strategic threat such an advance may pose to,say,the murmansk railway is ignored. Russian units are difficult to destroy (historical?)due to their ability to spread losses as steps amongst stacked units, whilst the finns disappear if they counterattack as any loss in attack is a unit destroyed since they are all one steppers. This means counterattacking is often dangerous as the Finns need all the units they can get. Anyway here are the rules questions we came up with 1 Can motorized units leave roads in forest hexes or are they restricted like tanks? 2 Do screen unit prevent attacks from the hex they occupy or only stop the movement of units in their hex? The rules tantalisingly hint that the screens may prevent attacks from their hex and this would serve to redress some of the imbalances if true. 3 Is there a political event pick on the first turn? We played this as if there was and the first chit drawn was Allied intervention! It was clearly ridiculous to have the Allies intervene prior to the Russians actually having attacked so we decided the picks must start on turn two. 4 Where is the southern border between Finland and Russia? The Mannerheim line? 5 Where do the Finnish 'V' units set up? Are they the Volunteer units? 6 Can all Russian para units drop om the same turn? 7 What is the point of the Finnish air unit on turns two and three? If it neutralises one Russian air unit on attack and they both get only one air unit on these turns then the whole exercise is pointless for these turns. 8 Are combat modifiers cumulative for terrain? eg Mannerheim line in a woods is a 3 or 4 shift left? 9 Is there a reason for screen units only deploying in woods and forests and not swamps? 10 There are 2 different victory point tracks,one on the map starting turn seven and one in the rule book starting turn one...how are they used? 11 Do retreated Finnish units contribute to the defence of a hex subsequently attacked after they have retreated to it? We played this as no they don't. 12 Can Russian units get two column shifts if both shock attack markers are used on two stacks attacking the same hex? 13 What are the effects of the engineer tank unit on non Mannerheim forts if that is the first hex they attack? Daniel dduldig@mira.net.au >>Could someone please re-post the eratta/clarifications for S&T 172's Molotov's >> war to me? >>I would appreciate it! >>thanks! >>john >>jdb@inel.gov >With the inestimable assistance of Leif Snellman, I have gathered the >following "unofficial" errata for your information on S&T #172 Molotov's >War. >Doug (dmurphy@wppost.depaul.edu) I have checked Doug's list and done some corrections, clarifications, comments & additions Leif (reached via matcgs@metla.fi) Map: - Add a road from 3004-3007. - Add the following towns: Kotka (1036), Lappeenranta (1832), Savonlinna (2420), Kakisalmi (with two dots over the first a) (2736) AND Hamina (1236), (sorry that one got lost in the texteditor the first time). - Add railroad (1634, 1733, 1732, 1832,1932, 2032, 2131, 2232, 2332, 2432, 2532) - Remove railroad between 2234 and 2532 - Remove railroad between 2732 and 3131 - Add railroad (2032 - 2234 and let it continue in the same hexes as the road eastward over Sortavala in 3133, then up to 3131 and by the road to 3730. And an other one goes 3232-3233 and by the road to 3435. - Finnish Border on isthmus "east-west": The last hexes on the Finnish side should be 2241, 2240, 2339, 2439, 2538, 2639, 2739. - After turn 5, treat all sea hexes as ice. - It appears the A line is also known as the weather line. Sov. Setup: Karelian Front: Add Border Regt 6 to Border Regt. 4 Sov. Reinforcements: Turn 2: it appears the #39 tank regt is missing from the counter mix. (That's OK, by then the Sov. player should have at least one destroyer tank regt which can be used instead, remember tanks can't be replaced) Rule Clarifications: Political Events 12.5: Allied Intervention: Add the following units to the Finns: 1: 2-8 (Scots Guards), 1: 6-6 (the dark green unit), 1 allied air. 12.6: Greater Aid to Finns: add these units: 41 reg., SISV, UVV, LVV. Reinforcements: As with returning "dead" units, It appears all reinforcements enter from the friendly map edge of your choice, unoccupied by enemy units. Replacements: While not explicitly stated, it appears you can replace steps of friendly units anywhere on the map by simply expending the relevant points. Finnish Screens: These units can be placed in any woods/forest hex in Finland at the beginning of ea. Finn move. phase. Simply pick them up and place them in the hex of your choice not occupied by Sov. units. Any screen which finds itself in the same hex as a Sov. unit at the begining of a turn must be placed elsewhere. They have no move pts and no combat strengths. They block supply on roads. Sov. units must stop upon entering hex w/ a screen. Some comments on rule 10, Soviet special operations: 10.1, Amphibious landings: - The Finnish coast was more or less fortified/guarded all the way from 1036 to 1939 and from 2738 to 3435. Finland also had two coast defence ships (pocket battleships) in standby as a "fleet in being" to discourage Russian naval movements. One interpretation of this might be no amphib landings allowed. (Doug) ...or let the coast hexes have some inherent defence factors. (Leif) Remember: after turn 5, treat ALL sea hexes as ice. (Including Lake Ladoga) This means that sea movements are forbidden. From turn 9 allow all infantry units to move on ALL sea hexes. Historical note: 8.30 am March 4th 1940, approx. one Russian reg. reached hex 1137 in a 6km long infantry column followed by vehicles. The Kotka artillery (hex 1036) opened fire and cut large holes in the ice. At noon the last russians had escaped out of range of the guns with several hundred men lost. (One source says 800!) 10.2: Air Drops: The game includes the 201, 204, 214 airlanding brigades (15th Army) According to the experts these were to be considered to be brigades with air transportation capability rather than paratroop brigades. They were used as infantry on the ice of Lake Ladoga late in the war. Order of battle: Finland: The important thing here is to note that in the rules the 1st Infantry Division is listed as turn 2 reinforcements. In fact the 1st Division was the peacetime standing army (thats why it consists of brigades instead of regements) and had been on the Isthmus since October. During the war the Finns changed numbers of several divisions. You _can't_ have both the 7th and the 10th division on the map at the same time, they are the same division! This is how the divisions/regements should look like: Karelian front II Corps (hex 1939 - 2336) 4 Div: 10,11,12 5 Div: 13,14,15 11 Div: 31,32,33 later 2 Div: 4, 5, 6 III Corps (hex 2437 - 2738) 8 Div: 23,24,26 <-- note 10 Div: 28,29,30 later 7 Div: 19,20,21 Northern front: 12 Div: 34,35,36 13 Div: 37,38,39 --- 16 Reserve: 1 Div: 1B,2B,3B 6 Div: 17,18,22 later 3 Div: 7, 8, 9 9 Div: 25,27 --- 40 Russia: Finnish research (1991) shows that there were 60 divisions in the Russian OOB in the Winter War. 49 are included in the game but many have wrong numbers. I'll just give you the latest available Russian OOB so that anyone interested can make his own comparisons and conclusions. A "*" means that the division never saw any action. 7th Army (Karelian Isthmus) 3 Cav Corps ?CavD, ?CavD Red Finnish Corps 1FinD, 2FinD (all FinD were understrength) 28 Corps 86MotD, 173D, 70D 10 Corps 43D, 42LtMotD, 113D, 138D 34 Corps 91MotD, 95D, 7D, 100D 50 Corps 24D, 84MotD, 123D 13th Army (Karelian Isthmus) 19 Corps 51D, 90D, 80D 23 Corps 62D, 136D 15 Corps 97D, 8D, 4D, 17MotD, 50D ? 142D 3 Corps 150D, 49D 15th Army (LadogaKarelia) 8 Corps 11D, 72D, 37MotD, 144D*, 25MotCavD, 3FinD 56 Corps 18D, 168D, 60D, 119MotD* 8th Army (LadogaKarelia) 14 Corps 56D, 164D, 24MotCavD, 75D 1 Corps 128MotD, 87D, 139D, 155D 9th Army (Northern-central Finland) "Group Repola" 54D, 163D 47 Corps 44D, 131D*, 172D* Det. Corps 122D, 88D 14th Army (Northern Lapland) 104MtnD, 52D, 14D, 4FinD Not in this game! (North of the Gamemap) Leif Snellman I am reposting this to the list because my email server is not reading the address of the fellow who requested this. unofficial Molotov war errata (IMHO) Karelian Front Sov set up: border regt: 4 add 6 Counter mix missing #39 Tank Brigade Volunteer units: 5 (1: 5-6; 2: 3-6; 1: 3-8; 1: 7-8) Allied intervention ground forces 2 (1: 2-8; 1: 6-6; green unit is French) Finn Karelian setup should be hexes 1939-2336. Finn 10th and 7th Div are the same unit. Weather Line is Line A Map errata: Add Towns: Savonlinna in hex 2430; Lappeenranta (1832); Kotka (1036); Kaksalmi (with ulma on the first "a") (2736) Add railroad: hexes 1634-1733-1732-1832-1932-2032-2131-2232-2332-2432-2532 Add Finnish border: Between 2242-2241,2341-2241,2340-2241,2340-2240,2340-2339,2440-2339,244 0-2439,2539-2439, 2539-2538,2539-2639,2640-2639,2640-2739,2740-2739, 2840-2739 Fortified Finnish coast from 3135-2738 and 1939-1036 Add road from 3004-3005-3006-3007. Leif Snellman (who is on this list) in Helsinki had arguments w/ certain rules: holding that ALL sea hexes should be ice. No Sov. amphib assaults should be allowed because the Finnish coast as shown on the map was fortified. No Sov. off-road hex movement north of Weather Line (in other words, the rule allowing 1 hex movement off road is too generous. Enjoy! Doug (dmurphy@wppost.depaul.edu)