Mark Herman - Dec 5, 2004 7:58 am (#7510 Total: 7549)   
   
Currently designing ACW and additional We The People style games.    
 
A Dark and Bloody Ground Set of Questions 

I hate to cut in with a rules question, but I need some clarification on
Indian Mobilization and set up. I have read all of the Q&A and have the
second edition rules from Grognard. 

This may be in the rules somewhere and it is implied in a recent
clarification note, but: Do Native American Nations that do NOT begin a
scenario (any scenario, not just the first scenario) on the warpath
begin face down on the map in thier tribal areas? If this is the case,
how do you deal with the situation whereby a tribal area is trespassed
by the US into an area with face down units and the tribe goes on the
warpath? 

My third question is on the recent clarification to Harmar's Expedition
scenario. The scenario as I understand it begins in the fall of 1790 and
ends in the winter of 1791 (2 turns). I was fine with that, but the
clarification states that Shawnee and Miami that do not begin the
scenario on the map can enter via mobilization during the Spring 1791
turn. Maybe I do not understand what a turn means, but isn't the Spring
of 1791 past the end of the scenario. If this is the case I assume that
it is a note for the Campaign scenario? 

Related to this last question, do these 'extra' Shawnee and Miami units
set up on the map face down or are they off to the side? Some of the
confusion may stem from the fact that the first scenario begins with a
set up that appears to be an exception to the rules. 

Comment: I know that there are always space limitations on magazine
rules, but when you have a system that is as new as this, it is often
useful to include some kind of comprehensive example of play for the
first turn of a scenario. This system has a lot of charts and procedures
and it is not always clear how they integrate into a turn. This set of
rules seems to make some assumptions that the reader will read between
the lines and I think I have, but there are some very basic issues that
are left for someone to sort out. One thing that Dunnigan and I use to
talk about was the worst sin in a game design, particularly a new
system, was causing confusion around how to set up and start a game. We
believed that once a game was set up properly most players would figure
the game out and derive historical insight just from the initial set up.
Mistakes or confusion in the set up were often difficult roadblocks to
overcome. Given the amount of Q&A around this issue I think that may be
the case here. This set of rules would benefit from a short piece at the
beginning of 15.0 scenarios laying out how to set up the pieces that are
not mentioned in each scenario. 

Having said all of that, the topic and the design are quite good and
have compelled me to sort all of this out, so I can explore what is
obviously a rich and interesting subject not previously covered in our
hobby, well done... 

Mark
 
 
Paul Rohrbaugh - Dec 6, 2004 8:01 am (#7530 Total: 7549)   
Developer of the 2004 CSR Best Wargaming Magazine!    
 
Greetings! 

Answers are in caps for easier reading. Definitely NO flaming intended! 

This may be in the rules somewhere and it is implied in a recent
clarification note, but: Do Native American Nations that do NOT begin a
scenario (any scenario, not just the first scenario) on the warpath
begin face down on the map in thier tribal areas? 

YES. HOWEVER, NOTE THAT IN SCENARIO 1 ONLY SHAWNEE AND MIAMI AREAS CAN
BE ENTERED. 

If this is the case, how do you deal with the situation whereby a tribal
area is trespassed by the US into an area with face down units and the
tribe goes on the warpath? 

WHEN A TRIBAL AREA IS TRESPASSED, AND THE TRIBE GOES ON THE WARPATH ALL
OF ITS WARRIOR UNITS ARE IMMEDIATELY TURNED FACE-UP. 

My third question is on the recent clarification to Harmar's Expedition
scenario. The scenario as I understand it begins in the fall of 1790 and
ends in the winter of 1791 (2 turns). I was fine with that, but the
clarification states that Shawnee and Miami that do not begin the
scenario on the map can enter via mobilization during the Spring 1791
turn. Maybe I do not understand what a turn means, but isn't the Spring
of 1791 past the end of the scenario. If this is the case I assume that
it is a note for the Campaign scenario? 

THE CLARIFICATION IS ONLY FOR THE CAMPAIGN GAME. 

Related to this last question, do these 'extra' Shawnee and Miami units
set up on the map face down or are they off to the side? Some of the
confusion may stem from the fact that the first scenario begins with a
set up that appears to be an exception to the rules. 

THEY WOULD START FACE-DOWN, BUT PROBABLY BE TURNED FACE-UP RIGHT AWAY
GIVEN HOW LIKELY THE MIAMI AND SHAWNEE WILL GO ON THE WARPATH. 

Comment: I know that there are always space limitations on magazine
rules, but when you have a system that is as new as this, it is often
useful to include some kind of comprehensive example of play for the
first turn of a scenario. This system has a lot of charts and procedures
and it is not always clear how they integrate into a turn. This set of
rules seems to make some assumptions that the reader will read between
the lines and I think I have, but there are some very basic issues that
are left for someone to sort out. One thing that Dunnigan and I use to
talk about was the worst sin in a game design, particularly a new
system, was causing confusion around how to set up and start a game. We
believed that once a game was set up properly most players would figure
the game out and derive historical insight just from the initial set up.
Mistakes or confusion in the set up were often difficult roadblocks to
overcome. Given the amount of Q&A around this issue I think that may be
the case here. This set of rules would benefit from a short piece at the
beginning of 15.0 scenarios laying out how to set up the pieces that are
not mentioned in each scenario. 

AS THE HEGEMON AND ANDY HAVE MENTIONED, AN EXTENDED EXAMPLE OF PLAY AND
REVIEW IS IN THE WORKS FOR THE MAGAZINE. WE'VE HAD A FEW AARS POSTED ON
THE GAME'S FOLDER, AS WELL AS MANY Q&A FROM ME FOR DBG. 

ALSO, THESE TYPES OF EXAMPLES OF PLAY ARE PLANNED FOR FUTURE ISSUES WITH
EACH GAME, SHOULD THIS PROVE TO BE WELL-RECEIVED/MERITED. NOTE THAT THE
ONE FOR INTO A BEAR TRAP CAN ALSO SERVE AS A MINIGAME/TOURNAMENT
SCENARIO. I'M CURRENTLY WORKING ON ONE FOR BIG PUSH: THE BATTLE FOR
THIEPVAL RIDGE THAT WILL USE THE SAME FORMAT. I'VE ALSO TURNED IN A
SIMILAR EXAMPLE OF PLAY/SCENARIO FOR FORTRESS BERLIN (FIGHT FOR THE
REICHSTAG) THAT MAY APPEAR SOMEDAY IN THE MAGAZINE. 

Enjoy!