************ Topic 43 Mon Sep 16, 1991 DIPLOMACY-1 at 20:27 EDT Sub: The Gamers Online support and discussion of products from The Gamers, Inc. 2 new messages. ************ ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 156 Fri Jun 30, 1995 P.CHIU4 [Samurai Cat] at 01:37 EDT Perry - Are those the foot long burritos? BTW, Mail me your address. Hans will send you the reports for our Omaha game. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 157 Fri Jun 30, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 09:49 EDT S.Cat: Yup, those are the big ones...Perry downed two of them at the retreat last year...we feared for his life. Perry, if you can remind me, we will do a complete photo expose on the Burrito run at this year's retreat...since demand seems to want it. Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Sent on 7/01/1995 at 8:12a Dean, I agree that your loyal readers of Ops magazine need to see what the much rumored burritos look like. We must remember to bring along a ruler for proper scale. :) BTW, I think I talked Wig into Homercon. I promised to transport him to and fro the airport so he will not have to rent a car. That seemed to be the trick. S.Cat, In all homesty, I only 1 and a half of the monsters. My trick was eating the veggie version which does not drain grease. Perry ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 159 Sat Jul 01, 1995 P.CHIU4 [Samurai Cat] at 14:50 EDT Hey Grease is good for you! I mean what good is Mexican food without the fat? ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 160 Sat Jul 01, 1995 R.RUBIN8 [Rich Rubin] at 20:47 EDT Perry : Veggie Cheat!! Veggie Cheat!!! I'll never believe your'e as macho as I once thought. Real men don't... don't ... ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 161 Sun Jul 02, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 16:29 EDT Perry: Your two burrito experience has already obtained you god-like legendary status around here...don't cheapen our worship of you! :) Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 162 Mon Jul 03, 1995 D.FOXMAN [Dan] at 01:03 EDT Just saw the map for Black Wednesday at the local game shop today, WOWB I thought that this was one I was gonna pass on, but having seen the map(I especially liked the "downed" 190) I changed my mind. I can't wait to get my hands on it! Another excellent job. Please keep it up! Any Pacific games(on islands other than Guadal) coming up? Thanks, Dan ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 163 Mon Jul 03, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 10:01 EDT Unfamiliar with the acronym "WOWB", I'll assume it conotes good things... I guess the Bloody Ridge game doesn't count (on the canal and all)...I haven't steeled up the courage to do a bug hunt battle like Tarawa or Iwo...pity the Japanese just seem to dig in and wait to die (unless things become really hopeless, and then they'll jump up and run into machinegun fire). It just seems like the defenders of Nippon should be printed on the map for what little they will be doing in terms of movement. Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 164 Mon Jul 03, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 12:10 EDT I have the following for sale: Apple Quicktake 100 digital camera, 2 yrs old, with additional battery packs and recharger, carrying case, cables, etc. For sale, best reasonable offer...e-mail your bid to THE-GAMERS. Thanks! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 165 Mon Jul 03, 1995 T.ARMSTRON10 at 17:22 EDT Now that Yom Kippur has been out a while, how about hearing from you guys that play the SCS regularly...Our group played YK yesterday and the emotions see- sawed all day, finally ending in a Egyptian minor victory... Anyone found a sure fire YK strategy yet? Tim ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 166 Mon Jul 03, 1995 L.PRATT [LRP] at 18:12 EDT Has anyone gotten OPERATIONS in the mail? I saw it in a hobby store in Columbus last week, but I don't have my copy yet. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 167 Mon Jul 03, 1995 C.PERLEBERG [Chris P.] at 20:08 EDT Tunisia? What is Tunisia and why should I want one ;-). Chris P. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 168 Mon Jul 03, 1995 D.CICERO [Dan Cicero] at 22:13 EDT I got my OPERATIONS in the mail today. Another good issue. Dean and Ed Wimble have a little point/counter point over the death of the hobby. I gotta come down on THE GAMERS' side again. I'm reminded of Grant at The Wilderness. All of his aides were telling him one thing or another about what Lee was going to do next. Grant got annoyed by all this. "Bobby Lee, Bobby Lee," he said. "All I hear is what Bobby Lee's going to do next. You make it sound like he's going to turn a double summersault and land in our rear. You'd best stop worrying about what Lee's going to do to you and start worrying about what you're going to do to him. Now bring up more guns." (This is a paraphrase. I'm too damned lazy to look up the original quote right now...) Dan ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 169 Mon Jul 03, 1995 M.PITCAVAGE [Pitman] at 23:35 EDT I have NOT got my Operations yet, but my hobby store has had it for some time now... ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 170 Tue Jul 04, 1995 J.DUNNAM1 [JRD] at 00:26 EDT The TUNISIA campaign started today here in Waco. I have taken the Axis, and Wig has taken the Allies. We are playing with most of the options from the Series rules and variants 4.0b, 4.0c and 4.0h (thinking it might be more historical, and I like all the help I can get). We have completed through December 15th. The game started with the Axis getting the initiative and taking with heavy losses. 190th Tank grabbed Souk Ahras as infantry slowly moved up in support. Br 6th Armored launched a immediate attack to take the crossroads held by 190th Panzer Bn. Fighting there continued for a month with stiff repulses of all British attacks (due in part to continued suprise rolls in favor of the Germans). Meanwhile the US 1st Armored headed for Tebessa being delayed only shortly by miscellaneous Italian and German units rapidly thrown in the way. Tebessa fell after a short time. Dispite little or no opposition the US 1st Armored then only advanced to just short of Kasserine and Ebba Ksour setting up defensive positions north of Kasserine and around Kalaa Djerda. This allowed the Germans to bring up the Barenthin Mot Fjr Regt to stop further unopposed advances to Ebba Ksour. On the north coast German units advanced north from Souk El Arba to join the Italian Superga division advancing from Djebel Abiod in an attack on Tabarka. Supported by KG Witzig and 501st Panzer Bn, Superga took Tabarka from elements of the Br 78th ID, with the Brits retreating after heavy losses, especially in artillery. The combined Axis force then took Las Calle, which caused the Allies to withdraw Br 6th Armored from its assault on Souk Ahras and set up that division along with the British Commando units in a strong defensive line just west of La Tarf. With the withdrawl of Br 6th Armored to stop Superga's supported attack, the Free French Oran division arrived and resumed the attacks (thus far still unsuccessful) on Souk Atras. During December we have thus far had 3 Mud turns. It is now the start of the December 19th turn and the weather is No Flight (sure wish I could airlift some more supply over). 10th Panzer is all at Tunis, and at least two regiments of Gr 334th ID should arrive this turn. More tomorrow. Any suggestions? I think 10th Panzer should get down to Ebba Ksour and turn back US 1st Armored before Wig gets brave. 334th ID is probably going to go to Souk El Arba and thence to Souk Atras to relieve 190th Panzer Bn and its supporting units. Jim ------------ Games RoundTable Category 4, Topic 43 Sent on 7/03/1995 at 9:45p Wah!!!! I see Ops mag in a game store and I don't have mine yet. Now I read Jim and Wig playing Tunisia and I don't have mine yet. Is there a conspiracy against the west coast? Dan, I think you would be better off w/ a game where both sides get to move. Digging out caves was not fun and will not be a game. Perhaps something from New Guinea or Burma. My favorite would be Nomohan (Khalkin Gol) and I have an excellent set of books to start from. Problem is no time right now. I guess I should be having fun instead of making GD'42 counters. :-) Perry ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 172 Tue Jul 04, 1995 D.POWELL4 [Dave Powell] at 08:04 EDT Chris, As you might have inferred from some of the posts, Tunisia is our new OCS game on the WWII campaign there. For now, it costs $32 at Origins or mail order. It will be in retail stores about mid-July, there to retail somewhat higher... Dave Powell ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 173 Tue Jul 04, 1995 A.LEWIS16 [Marmaduke] at 09:50 EDT Dean, I just to say thanks for the copy of Black Wednesday. I think the contest ideas are great. The game looks like a major slugfest with a lot of blood. I wanted to comment on the Enhanced TCS counters since you asked (Ok I would have commented even if you didn't ask). In general, I like them and would like to see their continued use in the upcoming games with some modifications. I liked the colored bands on the side with unit designations (very nice) and the gun and morter figures. I'm still not totally sure about the infantry figures yet. I need to set up a big scenario to see if it is still easy to pick out the infantry separate from the tanks which the older style counters provided. I didn't like that the machine guns and cannons were turned on their side to fit on the counter. I think that the unit type designations should be taken off. They crowd the counter and distract from the important information without providing anything really important (plus removing them would give room to put the machine guns and cannons on the counters correctly). I also thought that Spanish 262 and 263 regiments are too close in color especially with the same unit designation color scheme. I really liked that each artillery had its own designated mission marker. Overall, I think the new counters are a good move. I want to make a couple of comments about the latest Operations. I thought including "A Few Reminiscences" was a good idea. I think that every- one who loves this hobby if they have time should get involved. That's how this hobby will grow and thrive. Also it gives you a chance to change what you don't like about games (Your voice makes more of a difference in the gaming industry than it does in shaping the government). And for me, it's a neat thrill to see your name in the credits of the game (sorry Dean my recent ones have been AH and GMT) and it gets you more games at conventions because people like playing "experts" who helped put a game together. (If I'm an expert why do I lose so much) I agree with your statement that this hobby is mainly overlapping gamers. Most of the people I know play any games that are good and are on their subject. I think the most speciallized players are not The Gamers gamers or GMT gamers but are ASLers (not that there is anything wrong with that). I also think that a lot more of the hobby's dollars are going to The Gamers and GMT today than ever before. The reason behind this is they are the market leaders. The Gamers and GMT always put out a good product and you know that you aren't risking a dog purchase. Not even the Hill can boast this anymore like it did for so long, and it is what made it the top banana. I'm glad that The Gamers and GMT are here to keep the hobby from going into another post-SPI still funk. Save me a copy of Tunisia for Origins. I'll be working the GMT booth on Sat/Sun. See what happenings when I stop lurking - I get long winded. Sorry. Andy ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 174 Tue Jul 04, 1995 R.NIX3 [Boo] at 10:23 EDT Dean. Dave, Could one of y'all give us some historical background on Black wednesday? I'm unfamiliar with the battle. Is paella meets chicken Kiev or sangria vs Vodka? ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 175 Tue Jul 04, 1995 C.PERLEBERG [Chris P.] at 16:46 EDT Dave: Boy, is my face red. In posting my "What is Tunisia" question, I discovered that I'd somehow unmarked the Gamers topic somewhere along the line. I posted that one little message and got 166 back-dated messages in addition. Sorta clears everything up. (On the other hand the posts about Nude game play are a bit disconcerting ;-). So, Tunisia is something I'd like to get -- are you still going to offer a discount in the future, or should I send you my money now? Chris P. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 176 Tue Jul 04, 1995 J.KINCAID1 [John] at 18:02 EDT Dean Got both Tunisia and Black Wednesday and must say that they are right up there at the top of the quality scale. Tunisia looks like it will be a good game to break into the system on. You asked about the counters for BW. I think the art work and detail quality is great. They also look very functional. I must vote for the Hunter style though. Particularily the inf counters. I liked thisr style I guess because it feels more military/simulation then the silhouettes. BUT I am not at all "put off" by the new way it still looks great and all the data is clear. I guess I am a just serious "Gamer Groupie" . Yom Kippur Strategy I have been playing YK Solo for a couple of weeks. I can tell you what I am doing but will not profess to say it is worth remembering. After finding the IDF was loosing greately going toe to toe. I tried again. This time I formed the IDF around Bir Gifgafa and Central Rd. I basicly conceeded the north. From this position I have spent 3 turns raiding into SAM country (across Lateral Rd.) using Overruns and local superiority to inflict damage. Then during the exploit phase I pull back to my original positions under the protection of the IDF air, and Hawk. It is now turn 6 and I am starting an assault for the canal. I have concentrated on two points: cross roads of Central and Revicha roads with the Lateral Rd. I hope to join the two thrusts on the west of the dunes, maintianing interior lines as I seal of the south and hit the canal around Chinees Farm. Sounds good John C. Kincaid "Apple Valley CA" ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 177 Tue Jul 04, 1995 P.CHIU4 [Samurai Cat] at 22:42 EDT Is there a Patton counter in Tunisia? ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 178 Wed Jul 05, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 12:00 EDT S.Cat: Nope no Patton counter (Patton was only good in Tunisia to the degree he was better than the clown running Second Corps before him (Fredenhall, I think). Competence looks like genius when compared to incompetence. The discounted pricings will be available at Origins and in the mailing we just sent out...after that, they will be history. Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 179 Wed Jul 05, 1995 MIH.SUPPORT [Ulrich] at 16:25 EDT Jim: Your TUNISIA description is mouthwatering! Looking forward to see the game set up in a few days in Philadelphia (Dean, do we get Me 323 "Giganten"?) Uli ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 180 Wed Jul 05, 1995 L.PRATT [LRP] at 19:06 EDT Got my OPERATIONS in the mail today. Great as usual. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 181 Wed Jul 05, 1995 S.CLARKE8 [Scott] at 21:40 EDT Got my first Operations as a subscriber - noticed I was buying all the issues lately so figured might as well. Along with it (unasked for but appreciated all the more so), all the errata counters and the GB OCS 2.0 conversion stuff which I am putting to immediate use. Black Wednesday looks nice - this'll probably be the first TCS game I buy/try. Will this (or is it already) be in the normal distribution channels soon? Tunisia also sounds good, I'll be getting that as well. Seems like with Gamers, GMT and COA these are pretty good times for wargamers. The quality of games from these respective companies continues to just get better and better. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 182 Wed Jul 05, 1995 J.DUNNAM1 [JRD] at 22:00 EDT Uli TUNISIA plays very well thus far for sure. Wig and I used the early turns to re-aquaint ourselves with the rules. I still need suggestions here, and quickly; as Wig is due over again any time. Jim ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Sent on 7/05/1995 at 7:40p Dean, My BW arrived today. It looks great. Map is beautiful. Railroads with ties and a real embankment. Real like the op sheets. Easy to photocopy. Counters look real good. I like all the colors between companies. The subtle colors are looking real good. At a quick glance, I can tell everything apart in BW. Now all I have to do is "badger" my group into playing something besides Ardennes. Ulrich, There are ME-323 counters, at least in the advert on the back of Ops mag. Scott, If you ever want to learn TCS from local gamers, please call. My regular opponent, Scott J., is a great teacher. He is more patience than I. He is solo'ing GD'40 right now and I am sure we could fit you in one of the TCS games in my house (there are at least 1 and will be 2 after Origins). Jim, Wig is so cautious that you have nothing to fear. :-) Perry ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 184 Thu Jul 06, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 10:34 EDT Uli: There are two Me-323s in Tunisia...one for real and one as an optional (I figured this would be the only game we'd ever do which would have the thing in it, so why not go all out?) Besides, they are fun. Jim: Which side are you playing? Regardless, get familiar with the road net and watch those passes...it is easy for the unaware (and ungarrisoned...) to get their precious frontline popped at some key point and (because they did not set up any depth to their position) then watch in horror as a Panzer Division crashes through to their home ports. Key road passes must be garrisoned, etc. The results of not doing so can be catastrophic...and the limited numbers of decent units must be carefully placed (and that is what separates the best players from the ciphers...) Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 185 Thu Jul 06, 1995 J.DUNNAM1 [JRD] at 19:57 EDT Dean I'm playing the Axis. I immediately saw the importance of the passes; hence my running for Souk Ahras area right off the bat. Jim ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 186 Thu Jul 06, 1995 T.ARMSTRON10 at 23:16 EDT Dean, In Yom Kippur, the Israeli counterattack scenario, should the Israeli player go first, skipping the Egyptian player turn? Kind regards, Tim Armstrong ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 187 Fri Jul 07, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 10:16 EDT Tim: Nope, the Egyptians should go first (the scenario begins as the Egyptian attack of the 14th fizzles to its conclusion and the Egyptian player needs the move to rearrange his forces to his liking before the hammer blow.) Jim: The Axis needs to take it easy in the intial period to build up troops and supplies to do some better damage in December or so. The temptation is to run amok right away with the limited forces available and this invariably leaves big gaps for the enemy to exploit. (I got fried that way at least once and possibly more.) The big thing to rmember is that some minor spoiling attack early will burn supplies which might be used for something big later...I'd rather run the DAK's throttle to the firewall in late February, than jump around with 10 Pz early on...fuel and ammo are hard to come by in the desert and DAK burns the stuff by the bushel when going full blast--and when those great units do so, they develope a certain synergy you just can't get with one panzer division and a few attendent Italians... Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 188 Fri Jul 07, 1995 S.BRITTON2 [Stu] at 23:32 EDT Dean, I finally set up my TATC II map(s) and noticed a color value difference between the two maps. One of my maps is significantly darker than the other -- when you align the maps properly, some of the hexes (such as A2.01 and A4.01) are 50/50 between two shades of green, one much lighter than the other. A friend of mine who owns the game says that my north map is the problem one -- it is too light. I would have to agree, since some of the greens on the Map A do not match any of the colors on the Elevation Guide. Are you aware of this problem? It makes it tough to determine hex elevation when you jump from one map to the other. How much would a replacement Map A cost me, if I could buy one separately? Sorry for the belated notification of this problem -- I've been too busy playing other Gamers' games. Stu ------------