From: Ted Raicer Subject: TGWiE Balance -Long In a message dated 97-05-10 05:16:29 EDT, you write: << Could you comment on the following: 1) Isn't this "form a double line in France every time there's the threat of a double turn" completely ahistorical? I mean, you're talking about 1/4 to 1/3 of the French divisions falling back a hex every three months, which seems to make no sense simulation-wise.<< Depends on your point of view regarding game mechanics and simulation. A double turn itself is a completely abstract representation of the CP advantage of the central position. In fact, having to unstack every couple of turns prevents the Allies from launching continuous offensives (very unhistorical) and effectively but ABSTRACTLY represents the inevitable lulls between campaigns. >>2) Why don't the Germans use the fact that the French now probably have 2 instead of 3 units a hex to just maul the hell out of their line, putting France far behind on the unit recovery power curve? In our game group, every single game we've ever played without house rules to mitigate the double-turn (a half-dozen or more) has ended in or before 1916 and nearly always because of double-turn blitzkrieg breakthroughs, whether in Russia, France, or Italy. (Those that didn't end this way ended because the Germans gave up when two dozen or so divisions got pocketed in France in 1914.) And this is even after reading your many comments and puzzling over them.<< This is one of those areas where I'm sure I'm correct, but could probably only prove it by playing you as the Allies. I have played, witnessed, and read about scores of TGWiE games by now, and in general, the CP usually have a brief window of opportunity in early to mid 1915 to get a handle on one front before Allied power starts to become overwhelming. In general that front is the Russians, for if the CP have not inflicted very heavy losses and/or broken the Russian fort line between Kovno and Grodno before the serious Russian RPs kick in and the Russians are entrenched, they may never be able to do it. If they ignore the Russians they are committing themselves to a victory in the west at exactly the time that the French are at their maximum RP rate, and the British are building up fast. In short, they are gambling on French collapse. I have seen that gamble work only once among experienced players. As for unstacking causing the French to fall behind the attrition curve, again, I've seen it cause the French problems, but putting them and the BR enough behind the attritional curve to break them is another matter. The French RP rate along with the BR buildup gives them a lot of slack, and they can give up a lot of ground as well if needed. And the more pressure the Germans put on the French, the more pressure the Russians put on the Germans. To put enough German divisions in the west to have a realistic shot at Paris, you are risking the Tsar in Berlin. Add up the number of divisions, RPs, even combat factors available to the Allies and CP through 1915, and it is clear the CP are doomed in a straight up attritional fight. Contrary to your belief that double turn gives the CP a lock on victory, I believe it merely gives them the tools to survive the most dangerous period of the game for them-late 15 to late 16, so they have a shot of winning in 17-18. (Most players seem to feel TGWiE is balanced, but those who feel it isn't have always fallen pretty evenly into two camps: those who, like you, who feel the double turn gives the CP a lock, and those who complained the CP could never survive past mid-16. Obviously I think neither is correct.) >>We have no problem with initiative changes; we just think that over a month's time any army should be able to plug a 1-hex hole, no matter where their HQs or cities are. When we play again in a few weeks, we are going to (a) start in 1915 (because we don't think TGWIE models 1914 very well - the race to the sea never happens the way it did historically) and (b) use a house rule that says that whenever the initiative flips, the now-passive player on each map gets to move all of their units one hex before the now-active player proceeds.<< As for initiative changes and the double turn, I've already explained why I'm satisfied with the rules the way they are. In your games the Allies will now be able to launch continuous offensives in the west, and I fear it is the CP who will be behind in attrition. But if you feel the need, I would restrict your house rule to the western front map, not the east or Italian fronts. As for modeling 1914, the lines in most games usually end up fairly close to the actual ones. The Germans often are a bit farther west in the north, but farther away from Paris in the south. But in terms of exactly modeling the course of that campaign-of course not. That was a campaign of almost constant mistakes by both sides, and with hindsight players aren't likely to duplicate those errors (though they may make an equal number of new errors). If that bothers you, by all means start in 1915. Ted Raicer From: Ted Raicer Subject: Re: TGWiE Balance -Long In a message dated 97-05-12 12:38:34 EDT, you write: << To my mind, forming a double line on your last move as the Allied player in the west when the CP has the initiative in the east is automatic. I NEVER fail to form such a line, so the trench rule hurts the CP in this situation not the Allies, because it prevents the CP, in their second movement phase, from roaming up and down the front looking for the best odds vs. the Allied line. Jim, I always use all the optional rules except for the Bribing Italy rule. Ted Raicer >> OK, then the thing for the German player to do is to as rapidly as possible to get the initiative over to the East. Then sucker the Allies into always preparing a double line. The attrition curve, in games we've seen, will rapidly rise to where the French and Brits CAN"T form a double line. Then you let the other shoe drop and flip flop. Plus, the Russians are a bunch of wimps, girlie forms of men who can't ever form up a decent offensive, afraid of the Austrians, and too slow to tie their own shoes. Whaddda think about that? Ha Ha Ha. >> Ah, but the question is how soon can the Boche do a flip to the east? I don't think it can be done before Turn C (or rather, I think giving the Allies back to back turns in the west on A or B would make you regret doing it). And often the Allies can put a hole in the German line preventing such a switch before Turn D. So the earliest practical west front double turn imo is D or E. By then the Allied forces in the west should be able to handle the attrition curve, while the Russians are fully mobilized, meaning that unless substantial German forces go east the "girlie-men" may dine in Vienna or Berlin. Hjalmar Gerber writes: >> easier said than done against an Allied player with more than two functioning brain cells. It is holy writ in the Allied Strategy Text Book that there must be a hole in the German Western Front at the end of each turn while the Germans have the initiative on the West Map. This is not too difficult to do, as the Germans are not exactly stacked too high along the Western Front in 1914-15 while on the offensive. The sure sign that a flip-flop is coming, is when the Germans start forming a double line while holding the initiative - which means that they have to forego a turn of offense . . . which means that the Allies get a chance to regain their equilibrium. Very important: ALWAYS KEEP RESERVES !<< This seems like sound advice to me. But no doubt we'll test this out at Avaloncon. Ted Raicer