Mark Pitcavage - 05:08pm Dec 11, 2001 PST (#1266 of 1277) Remember September 11 I've played The Fall of France (the GDW Europa Game) and enjoyed it. It's not my favorite Europa game by any shot, but it is better than any other game on the subject except for Victory in the West. (although 1940 was a fun little game, I will admit) It is pretty unfair to criticize Drang Nach Osten, given that the game bears no resemblance to Europa games now. But even when it came out, it was something that simply had never been done before. With regard to Europa in the twenty-first century, I think you can make the following generalizations: 1. In terms of ground unit/movement/combat simulation, it is quite behind the times. 2. In terms of air unit simulation, it is still cutting edge. 3. In terms of orders of battle research, it is unsurpassed. 4. In terms of map research, it is in the first rank. 5. In terms of player friendliness (a host of factors), it leaves a lot to be desired. 6. In terms of a gaming community, it offers one of the more active subcommunities (along with ASL and WiF). In terms of the individual games, Narvik and Western Desert (re-released in expanded versions as Storm over Scandinavia and War in the Desert respectively) have the highest reputations, followed by Fire in the East/Scorched Earth, which is due to be completely revamped (something already getting lots of people salivating). Second Front has a devoted following, but is pretty complex and involved (invasions). First to Fight (Poland) languishes because of the basic game situation. Balkan Front is something I like quite a bit; a new game will soon be out called "Wavell's War" which will allow people to combine the East African Campaign, the North African Campaign and the Balkan Campaign into one grand Eastern Med type of simulation, which seems rather juicy. The Russo-Finnish game, Winter War, is pretty good but not great. The Spanish Civil War module, For Whom the Bell Tolls, is good but very long and involved. The two ugly stepchildren are The Fall of France and Their Finest Hour, but following the revamping of the Eastern Front games, they will be combined together into a massive spring/summer 1940 game that could be very interesting. In addition, there are the "Glory" games, using virtually the same system to simulate Pacific War land combat. Released so far are War of Resistance, a fascinating monster game of the Sino-Japanese War 1937-41, and The Damned Die Hard, dealing with the Philippines (a personal favorite topic of mine). The third system takes Europa to "The Great War." The first game, "March to Victory" is a massive World War I western front game. The second, "Over There" continuing the first game through the end of the war, is due out very soon--any day, really. The third game will do the Eastern Front and is very eagerly anticipated; the fourth game will have Balkans/Near East, etc. Overall, I give the Europa system high marks. It does show some age or other problems here and there, particularly in terms of: 1) hexes are slightly too small 2) time scale is wrong; should be one week, not two 3) movement factors are somewhat suspect 4) AEC/ATEC system has some bugs And some other items. A personal complaint of mine is that the air system has gotten to be extraordinarily complex, but most Europa-philes don't seem to mind. Responding to Tom Bierschenk's post above, I agree that it could handle losses more effectively than it does, but I reject the notion that it needs a command and control system. That's not appropriate for the theater level scale that it basically represents.