Markus Stumptner - Sep 27, 2011 7:07 am (#45277 Total: 45528) ou may just have missed your last chance for incremental garbage collection. Well, on Friday night, we played the latest World at War, Famous Divisions: Grossdeutschland Panzer. The scale is good; the rules are reasonably simple, and generally clear enough, although some questions remained. The system uses chitpulls (which I like) and simple step losses (which I also like), so the chassis is pretty sound. There obviously was a great deal of effort spent on presentation, and each scenario has historical notes and even strategy recommendations. Very nice. One feels there was effort put into the double issue. We played the Lutchessa Valley scenario because it was the shortest, (3 game days, or 12 turns IIRC). The Russians come in from two map edges to take five hills scattered across the map. There are not enough Germans to hold the front, and since hills tend to be good defensive terrain, the battle to some degree centers around capturing the hills. Two of them are close enough to each other (and one is part of a chain of hills that protect the German artillery from Soviet artillery observation) that the Germans can try to form a kind of front around them once the Soviets have come over the river or from the south. Initially the Germans are forced to fall back on the open flank and will try to contain (and with the help of their pioneers, destroy) the bridges over the river. The Soviets have lots of mechanised forces that can only cross this river at bridges. (See, however, a remark at the end about an important mechanism that we overlooked initially.) The scenario lasts for three days, and although the victory conditions talk about "accruing VPs" and such, they could simply have said "the Russians need to take the five marked hilltop hexes to win." There is a chance of the Germans (who are essentially mechanised infantry) to get a tank battalion and a mechanised artillery batallion, which would strengthen their force immensely. To prevent this, the Soviet player must refrain from taking a hill on the first day already, pretty much a no-brainer. (See photo below.) It seems those reinforcements weren't historically sent and I can't see a Russian voluntarily allowing them into the game after taking a look at the countermix. We stopped playing about two turns from the end, by which time three of the hills had fallen, it was possible that the others would fall, but it would essentially have come down to the event chits, and we just didn't greatly care to find out any more. Which brings us to the bits we don't like about the game. There are three types of combat in the game: "combat" (the rules call it that - a terrible name as it, weirdly, implies that ranged combat is not combat, so I'll put it in quotes as a reminder), direct ranged fire and artillery ranged fire. The game actually has a nice interplay between these three, it is just that each of them, in multiple ways, gets things wrong. Let's start with "combat". It uses a normal odds-based CRT, happily enough with a fair bit of step losses. It is very simple in application. Results only ever apply to one side, so an attacker never takes any losses in a successful assault. That's very old style, but so far, so good. More importantly, the CRT was spiced up by the "event chits" that fill most of the second counter sheet. We were quite excited when we set the game up to see their effect. You have to count most of them out (30 of this colour, 25 of that per player) and put them into separate cups. So we assumed they would give the players some different capabilities. Would they represent differences in command control, doctrine, operational art? Nothing of the sort. In fact the work of sorting the chits into two cups is pointless. For each combat, each player pulls a chit. The colour of the chit determines whether it has a positive or negative effect; which player pulls it, or which player attacks, makes no difference, and as there are so many chits that you will not really run through them more than once, there is no learning or other selection effect associated with them. You could just as well just put the red and blue chits in one cup and pull two every time. (There is a third type, black chits, that can be chosen to be played, but we found thye rarely applied; I think we had two in the whole game.) Anyway, the blue and red chits work as dieroll modifiers on the CRT: one colour negative, the other positive. This ranges from the useless (when they cancel out) over the annoying (when the effects are so strong that what happens on the map is irrelevant - our first attack on a heavily fortified German hill happened to get a +7 modifier - the dieroll didn't matter any more) to the hilarious (when a +2 chit telling you that the attackers are raw recruits is compensated by a -2 chit telling you that the attackers are veterans). Something like that happened on our second combat. Essentially, "combat" is a crapshoot depending mainly on the event chits. (Oh yeah, there is another thing. Retreat results are towards the middle of the CRT, obviously based on the reckoning that a defender loss is worse than a retreat, and a defender unit elimination worse than that and a total elimination even worse. Well, that is true in a way, but retreats are mandatory, so a hill that is stacked to the hilt can be cleared in one attack, by a middling dieroll result resulting in a DR, because all the units then must bug out together.) Now, ranged direct fire I already talked about elsewhere. The salient properties are: (a) except for four light tank units in recon and HQ units which can't do ranged fire at all, all tanks and AT guns should the same; the only variable is that some shoot to 4 hexes (and three counter shoot to 5) while most shoot to 3, but the hit probability drops off steeply after 3 hexes (1500m), so that the extra range is all but useless. This makes both sides' historical use of heavy tanks as long range tank killers (the Germans in the time covered by the game, the Soviets mostly after it) moot (and the long guns of the day could certainly hit tanks reliably out to 4 hexes). What is also odd is that for the two effects of hits by ranged direct fire (pinning or outright step loss), the mechanism used means that as the ranges get longer, the STEP LOSSES take over - at extreme range, all hits will turn into step losses, while close in, a much larger part of the hits are pins. Not only is that weird in itself, since the chance of a step loss increases with range, ranged direct fire is a great method for tanks to kill infantry at a distance. It can't hit back, and the tanks take no risk. The only drawback is that it takes more time. I don't remember tank fire at 1000m being a major factor in infantry casualties during the war though... In addition, the designer appears to rather overvalue the negative effects of size (apparently he thinks that inability to hit was more of an issue than the need to penetrate armor), so some of the hardest-to-destroy AFVs (KV-2 and Elefant, the latter with an overall 10:1 kill ratio over its service life) have extremely low defense values. A Tiger unit is no harder to kill than a T-34/76 unit (and remember that the T-34 shoots the same out to range 3, and at range 4, the Tiger only has a 10% chance to have any effect on the T-34 before the T-34 closes and everything is on an equal basis). I was told that the low defense factors represent outflanking. But you can't outflank someone from the front, 2-3 hexes away; outflanking means coming at him from a significantly different angle. In fact that is how such units would be historically defeated. Here it is a self-defeating tactic, as units coming from two directions can be targeted twice as often by opportunity fire as one big stack. The full frontal assault, everyone in a dense stack, is the most effective method of attack! Oh, and did I mention that the ability of units to move and then fire ranged fire apparently extends to AT guns? Yes, AT guns, like tanks, can be moved into range and then fire (and they are as durable as any tank against opportunity fire, apparently the AT guns' gun shields protect the towing trucks?). This turns AT guns in a quite effective offensive weapon. Oh yeah, when a tank unit loses a step, its defensive value is halved. This works ok with "combat", but makes no sense for ranged fire. In exchange for that, a half strength unit still fires exactly as before. All silly effects in this game seemingly come in pairs. That leaves artillery bombardment. Like direct ranged fire, it doesn't use a table. You roll three dice. First, the sum has to be larger than the range to get a hit. So no artillery unit can score a hit in bombardment at ranges longer than 17 hexes. (Funny enough, all artillery units have ranges from 21 to 29 hexes, and have no problems in firing full strength combat support out to those ranges. It's only in bombardment that they can't hit anything at that distance.) However, this is compensated for by two other effects. First, artillery hits are not modified by anything, type of target or whatnot. Artillery bombardment therefore becomes an excellent method of swatting units in highly defensible locations such as towns. They make no difference to it. Walls, cellars, entrenchments offer no protection. In addition, while ranged direct fire hardly occurred in our game and when it did was subject to harsh modifiers for bad visibility, artillery observers can miraculously spot full range (5km) through dense fog and snow. Do they use seers? I also mentioned supply. Supply in the game is conducted by tracing from a unit to its battalion HQ, and from there (a) along a unlimited length supply lines off the map or (b) to another friendly HQ. The first one was an old and well-known staple in the times of Command magazine; it was what made me stop Rommel at Gazala (a game I otherwise admired) when the Germans managed to avoid being put out of supply by tracing a convoluted supply line, longer than the map was wide, into the heart of Allied territory along a ridge, then out in a opening on the ridge right near Tobruk, and then back to the German side. But I digress. The same happened in our game - the Russians crossed the river at a bridge, had their supply line across the river caught by German units. Now the rules state that every turn without supply hurts a unit several and after four turns (24 hours) it is inevitably dead. In our case, however, the Russians traced a supply line through forty hexes of woods and forest on the German-held part of the map (but not through an EZOC) back to safety. It would have taken four turns for the first supply truck to reach them by that route, but not to worry. Probably they refilled their ammo racks and tanks at a partisan-owned gas station and gun shop. Now, condition (b) above is not much better. At one point the Russians drove two battalions into a tiny cauldron in the middle of the German position, where they were cut off. Because there were two battalions in the pocket, they traced supply to each other and would have been fine indefinitely. Imagine the two battalion commanders agreeing on a pact: each uses the other side's stores. As neither battalion uses its own stores, these stores will never be used up. Brilliant! Er... Markus Stumptner - Sep 27, 2011 7:16 am (#45278 Total: 45528) You may just have missed your last chance for incremental garbage collection. Ok, the last bit. I mentioned how important the river in the Lutchessa Valley scenario is to the Germans as a defensive line. Well, the reason why the Russians can only cross it at bridges is because except for some late-arriving reinforcements, all their infantry is mechanised. But wait... mechanised infantry can disembark from its vehicles, move as leg units, and reembark. So the way to cross the river is to step out of the truck, cross the river as a leg unit... and then step back into the trucks waiting on the other side?! It's like a tour bus ride! (We only realised this when the scenario was already pretty much over.) Not only that, but theoretically the river cuts supply. However, as mentioned before, everyone can trace supply as long as it's not completely blocked by impassable terrain or EZOCs. So the Russians will be fine on the other side as the Germans simply don't have the units to build a ZOC cordon clear across the map. (I realise that this mechanism has become favoured in a number of other tactical systems recently and one shouldn't really single this system out for it, just because it is done at such a clever scale that it shows why the mechanism is not a good idea, while in the other games it's buried under long play or "oh, we won't do that" rhetorics.) It appears the next game is already in the works, and there, the trusty M4 Sherman has been relegated from the ranks of normal tanks - it doesn't have ranged fire. So we have a game that bills itself as an armor game but discounts the standard version of the world's most numerous tank from normal tank combat. Again, the Sherman would fight Tigers or Panthers at a severe disadvantage, but against PzIVs (or the thinly armored tank destroyers) it should be perfectly capable of defeating them at range. Such are the perils of an overly simple system. (I should add that since Grossdeutschland was never a Panzer division, it would only be fair if the next game was titled "Guards Armored.") So why do I keep writing about this game so much? Well, I really want to like it. It has such a sensible basic scope and approach, that one wants it to succeed, only to run into mechanism after mechanism that just doesn't make sense. Anyway, we do want to try the game again, probably with the Kursk scenario so we get some more ranged direct fire happening. However, we'll probably do the following obvious things (unfortunately not all are as easy as they are obviously needed): - use the original armor strength also for shooting at reduced tanks - apply a -1 to ranged direct fire of step reduced tanks - fix the fact that all guns fire equally well (i.e., increase the chance to hit for some guns). This will be the trickiest bit; don't know yet how. Perhaps apply a modifier for tanks whose "combat" strength is greater than 5. - Prevent leg unit re-embarkation except if it's clear that the trucks or halftracks could be at that point. (Perhaps we'll introduce a single "truck park" counter for a whole battalion, just to keep track of where they could go and not cross impassable terrain.) - find a way to apply the terrain modifier, at least for towns, to artillery; perhaps by adding it to the range? - make artillery observation subject to the same issues as ranged fire; if I can't see a tank 500m away, why can I shell a unit 5km away? - rule out supply trace through "enemy" areas - rule out "mutual supply trace" in pockets I predict there are two demographics that will be fine with the game as is: first, solitaire players who are interested in narrative and nothing else (for example in whether the narrative makes sense). The chitpulls and the event chits are both good for solo play, and if all tanks shoot the same you will not be faced with intricate decisions for both sides, so you don't suffer brain overload. It should also be fine with the legions of players who claim these things are always "just a game"; in its current state, this one certainly is, but since many people don't care as long as they push tank icons on a map, it might even be a hit. It's a good chassis; I hope they roll it back into the garage and replace all the sputtering and sparking subsystems before they send the next one on the road. But I'm not hopeful.