From: Markus Stumptner Subject: [consim-l] Imperium (GDW) Finally got to play Imperium (2nd ed, at least the way it usually seems to be counted - the one with the jigsaw map) ftf last night with John Nebauer after all the years I've known about it... have to say, this game is a blast. Not too complex, and the interwar mechanisms really serve to prevent too fast a swing in one direction since it very well represents the situation of the losing side preparing better for the next war than the (complacent?) winner, and the effect of both sides having their forces deteriorate each time after the "last war" is over. Some very nasty decisionmaking, as you decide on a decent force mix, interesting tactics in battle, and there's always more to do than you have money for. Ironically, strategically, it reminds me of nothing as much as of the two Peloponnesian War games I've played (the SimCan one because of the force building aspects, with the feeling that disaster awaits you always at hand, and the VG for a completely different one - you switch sides if you do too well :-) Only drawback: GDW's loose rules writing style with which neither of us was very happy, and with its open victory conditions this looks to be a potentially very long game... Anyone here who's played it? How many wars do people usually go through before a decision is reached? Markus Last 3 games played: London's Burning, Rome at War, Imperium ----------------http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/user/mst/games/---------------- "Bakayaro! Bakayaro!" ("Stupid Bastards! Stupid Bastards!") -- Admiral Aritomo Goto's last words to his staff, October 11, 1942 From: "Clay, Gordon, CTR (SAIC), AF/XPXC" Subject: RE: [consim-l] Imperium (GDW) I have played this game a lot over the years. It is one of the best sci-fi games I have ever played, though there are some vague passages in the rules (I have never been able to determine if the imperial player is allowed to set up on Procyon or not, though we have always supposed that this should be allowed.) It does feel much like an ancient strategic game what with pickets constantly being sent out to hold ones important jump routes. It can be a very long game. In my experience: 1) ]Very short games (1-3 wars) are won by the Imperium, usually because the terran player has made some horrible mistake and lost most of his fleet, thus opening his home worlds to invasion. If the imperil loses Procyon before a quick victory, it will mean a long game probably. 2) "Medium games" 6-15 or so wars are won by the terrans, since their production growth curve is much higher than that of the imperials in the middle years when new planets (as opposed to outposts) start pumping out 8 points per turn. Fortunately for the imperials, for the terrans to be this strong the imperials are now within 3 jumps of both fronts, so benefit (as the terrans do at the beginning of the game) from having interior lines, and can maintain both fronts with one fleet, while the terrans need 2 fleets about as powerful as that of the Imperium to go on the offensive. 3) Hypothetically, a very long game (20+ wars) should see the Imperium recovering and going on the offensive to win as the imperial player's income, unlike that of the terran, theoretically has no upper limit, what with rolling plusses to his imperial revenue through all the wars, though I have never seen a game go that long (it's hard to keep going with the same game so long for many reasons). Great game. And Avalanche Press is publishing Imperium 2000 (in Aug 2001 I'm told) with many new twists to hopefully improve this real classic. Gordon Clay "The best insights into the future come from understanding the past" From: "John Nebauer" Subject: Re: [consim-l] Imperium (GDW) ... have to say, this game is a > blast. Which is what Markus proceeded to do to the Imperial fleet in the 2nd war...... Both sides took, lost and re-took Procyon. After the aggressive Terrans took Procyon from the peace-loving Imperium, the Imperial outposts on Epsilon Eridani and Tau Ceti were bypassed because the Imperial governor foolishly neglected to occupy Markhashi. A Terran victory in 3 turns.... The Terrans now have a world at Tau Ceti, and an outpost at Shuruppak. A rather uncomfortably close proximity to the provincial capital....... Excellent game though. The main criticism I would make is that the capital ships seem quite vulnerable given their cost, and the 'one hit and you're destroyed' combat results. The Terran missile boats can blast them into scrap in short order, and the Imperial cruisers pack a punch as well. From: "Clay, Gordon, CTR (SAIC), AF/XPXC" Subject: RE: [consim-l] Imperium (GDW) Well, the terran missile boats are very vulnerable too. I like to think of them as one time +50% pk shots against any imperial cruiser (and exactly 50% pk against imperial monitors and most BBs). Any that survive combat are a windfall. BTW, the Imperium player should always leave at least a ftr garrison at Shruppak. Guess you know that now. It doesn't hurt to strand a scout at Sirius either just to close the bottleneck at the end nearest the terrans. Still, this early in the war, seems like it would be tough for the terrans to hold Tau Ceti this early in the campaign, though they might make you really pay to take it back. Gordon Clay "The best insights into the future come from understanding the past"