From: Markus Stumptner Subject: Re: [consim-l] RE: Salamis On 6 Dec 2000, Elliot Wilen wrote: > Markus, can you compare Salamis to any other single-ship scale games > (Trireme, Ram Speed)? Thanks. Sorry, I have only the vaguest memory of Ram Speed (perhaps I should refresh it - I just recall the different sized ships, that was fun). Compared to Trireme, Salamis is much simpler (as it has to be to deal with an 800 ship battle). The rules are only 5 pages long. Ships are sunk after taking 3 damage points (but when ramming from the flank chances are good they'll go down outright), and each ship has one unit of marines (which is simply a marker placed on the ship and removed when lost). Ship and crew properties (ram strength, ram defense, crew melee quality) are different for different nationalities but homogeneous within nationalities (except that flagships have a morale modifier in combat and their loss can break their nationality's morale). Speed is the same for all fleets (6 hexes when not tired). That's doable for that era; for later battles, especially during the Successors' era, I guess he would simply introduce smaller subdivisions in the fleets. The sequence of play is asymmetric, it is Initiative player half move (3 hexes) - Non-initiative player full move (6 hexes) - Initiative player half move, grappling/ungrappling - boarding. The net effect is that the initiative player, when played right, can move in to ram and, unless rammed back or otherwise pinned in place, can retreat out of reach in the second phase and thereby avoid boarding. The non-initiative player can make long "lunges" but not withdraw, and has the advantage in boarding since he moves his troops from ship to ship last. Initiative belongs to the Persians at the start of the game and later switches when a formation of the side holding initiative is demoralized. This mechanism works surprisingly well, it's the most elegant solution I've seen to the bane of galley games, the fact that with alternating moves you can't really represent a situation where both sides are moving towards the other with intent to engage. Which is the usual way galley engagements start. The best solution in terms of effect as opposed to the most elegant, IMO, is still the plotted movement of Trireme, because it's completely symmetric, but that of course takes so much effort that you can only play small parts of battles. There are no command control rules to speak of, but that doesn't really disturb me in this case because of the constricted environment the battle is fought in. We'll see how well it works with other battles. The amazing aspect is that this humongous monster is actually playable. I note that we probably won't get around to finishing the game, at which point people are going to nod and say "of course", but in fact this is due to the guy who hosts the game having to clear his spare bedroom for his parents' arrival during the Christmas holidays and the fact that he's buried under thesis work till then. Actually, with two people per side you can assume that it takes about 45 minutes per turn, and a decision will probably be reached after 15-20 turns. That means two long Saturday afternoons for four players and you're finished. That is by no means impossible. Markus Last 3 games played: Salamis, Thunder at the Crossroads II, Pacific Fleet ----------------http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/user/mst/games/---------------- "Bakayaro! Bakayaro!" ("Stupid Bastards! Stupid Bastards!") -- Admiral Aritomo Goto's last words to his staff, October 11, 1942