Brandon Einhorn - 05:57am Sep 11, 1998 PST (#251 of 265) New Leader Loss Rules I have no problem with the better leaders having a greater chance of dying. I do have a problem that the other modifiers (forts, elite units, size, etc) increase this. I also have a problem with the tactic of packing the army with duds to dilute the losses of the better leaders. And I have a problem with silly gamey tactics like not using your best corps commanders because you dont want to risk rolling a 10. Imagine Lee saying to Longstree "Pete, you are relieved of Command, Bishop Polk, your the new corps commander, now lets get them" The new rule is this: After each battle roll a pair of dice for each leader. If the 1st die comes up 6, then look at the second die. If its <= the leaders battle rating, he dies. A 0 rated leader dies on a 1, same as a 1 rated leader. My proposal requires more die rolling BUT there will no longer be incentive to pack an army with duds to dilute losses, so there will only be say 3 non army commanders to roll for. Stonewall, Longstreet have a 1/6 * 1/2 = 1/12 chance of dying each battle. A 2 rated leader has a 1/18 chance (1/6 * 1/3) and a 1 or 0 rated leader a 1/36 chance (1/6*1/6). Now if these percentages are too low then its easy to adjust, simply subtract 1 from the 2nd die roll. Then a 3 leader will die 1/9 (1/6* 4/6), a 2 leader will die 1/12 and a 0,1 leader will die 1/18. I would also point out that the leader losses posted way back are exagerated. Van Dorn did not die in combat, he was Murdered. AS Johnson can not die in the game as an army commander. The Costly mistake card is usually good for 1 general during the game since it comes up twice. AP Hill was killed at the very end of the war in a disorderly retreat, one would almost call it a suicide. While Jeb Stuart was killed in combat in 1864 his death is so stupid that one almost wonders if it was a suicide. Morgan was killed in combat. Mansfield (the union 12 th corps comander) was killed at Antietam. Also look at army commander losses. AS Johnson killed Joe Johnson wounded MacPherson Killed Hooker was knocked senseless at Chancellorsville, but not seriously injured. Lee exposed himself to danger at the Wilderness before the Texans told him to go back. Why shouldnt army commanders be at some risk of dying/wounding? If Lee dies then the game balance may suffer, and the same goes for Grant or Sherman. How about on a box cars the army commander dies. Thats a 1/36 chance and there were less than 36 Army battles, so on average each side will lose less than 1 army commander, but the chance is still there. Maybe because this chance is so remote it can be left out completely, but I mention it for consideration. My leader loss method will add a little die rolling to the game for each battle, say 1 per turn, not a big deal. But I find it much more satisfying that packing the army with Bragg doesnt save Stonewall, and defending in a fort with an elite unit wont kill MacPherson. I prefer this method to the one where a leader dies on a 9+ but non-leader modifiers dont count, because that method still rewards packing the bad leaders into the army, and one still plays games with not commiting the best leaders. Other than Rich Simons automatic rejection of every house rule I suggest, what do you think? Steven Bucey - 10:02am Sep 14, 1998 PST (#283 of 301) Visit the Columbus Area Boardgaming Society homepage at http://web.jadeinc.com/spqr Richard says: Okay, let's hear yours. Surely, Leader Casualties Change: "At the conclusion of each battle each player must roll one die. If the die roll is less than the battle rating of any leader in that player's force, or a one in any case, then that player must check for leader casualties for his force. For each leader in his force, the player must roll 2d6. Add that leader's battle rating, but subtract one if that leader is the force commander. If the result is 12 or greater that leader is killed. If the result is 11, that leader is wounded and placed on the turn track for the next game turn as a next turn reinforcement." Any time a "x-3" rated leader is involved in an attack this gives a 10/108 chance that any given x-3 rated leader in that stack (who is not the commander) is killed (though all have to check).